Eva Milne, The Jute Journal Lead.
Earlier today, DUSA President-elect Tánaiste Custance sat down with The Jute Journal to discuss his intentions as president, student engagement, the state of DUSA, and the ongoing financial crisis.
Custance, a community education student and political activist, has set forth strong intentions for his term. His election has sparked a sense of change within DUSA. In an in-depth and introspective interview, he shared his thoughts on the future.
The Jute Journal (TJJ): What did you study at Dundee?
Custance: "I study Community Education, which is a combination of youth work, adult education, and productive trouble making in the service of empowering communities. I mostly specialise in the latter".
TJJ: How did you enjoy University?
Custance: "I have mixed feelings with university. There are some things that lived up to my expectations and there are some that didn't. The ones that did were the quality of my teaching and my lecturers. And we have a very excellent community education team here who do a lot of hard work. They go well beyond the extra mile for students. I'm, yeah, I'm very proud to have worked with them".
"Things that haven't gone quite as well, I suppose DUSA is actually a prime example. I mean, some of it is not all obviously as it’s not their fault there was a pandemic. But I certainly think that some of the way that it's been both led and managed in the four years that I’ve been here…well to be polite there is definitely room for improvement".
"I'm very keen not to repeat the mistakes that have been made. Instead, I promise the vow to make a whole different set of mistakes. So, I suppose a lot of good things and lot of good things with Dundee, and it's actually quite a nice city; people should never call it 'Scumdee".
TJJ: Why did you run for President?
Custance: "Well, clearly, I have some kind of pathological mental condition that requires me to think that it's some good idea to take over a student union at a university that may or may not have the cash to exist in three months’ time".
"More seriously, I mean to quote the slogan- do you give a feck about the exec- I stood because I do actually care".
"My experience with DUSA over the last four years, at least from the outside, absolutely woeful in standing up for student interests".
"I know they do a lot of good work behind the scenes, but it's always very, very badly communicated, if at all. The pantry is a really good example, they managed to get the pantry up and then closed at very short notice, and it took them two or three months to get it back up and running".
"But instead of trying to organize and mobilize students, which, I mean, anybody can do, but it's kind of the job of a student union to do that, it didn't. It was left to quiet, behind the scenes meetings, and as a consequence, the Free Breakfast isn't up and running and the pantry is only half funded".
"As a community, educationist, my professional training, and also just being a political activist, I think I will bring a very different style to how the student union has been run in the past".
"One thing that, again, annoys me is that DUSA does not openly conflict with the university. And I get it's partly because they're the purse string holders that fund us. I think it's one of the reasons why DUSA have suffered from a low reputation and low engagement from students is that they don't have the courage of standing up publicly to university".
I stood very openly on a manifesto of saying that the current UEG should resign, I think that Shane O'Neill's position is untenable. And it's not personal, absolutely not personal, you know, it's to quote, you know, to quote the Godfather, It's just business. I think engaging in a certain level of conflict with the university can be productive for students. So again, I bring a different, different style, different kind of presidency.
TJJ: If you were to set three goals for your term as President, what would they be?
Custance: "I mean, the first one would be getting the Breakfast Club up and running and fully fund the pantry. It serves everyone, but especially for those who are the most in need and vulnerable. In the case of the pantry, obviously, it's mostly used by international students, and the reason for that is a combination of the hardship fund not being available to them because of the way the Scottish government puts the funding in, and also because of, frankly, racism, whether that's employers not hiring people, or other issues".
"For the university, it's not enough to say you're anti racism and that you don't like racism. It's not enough to get a bronze award for the race charter and then declare that you've done your bit. You actually have to put the effort in. And in the case of resourcing, that means putting the resources in".
"I think one thing would be to, as best we can, protect students throughout this crisis. However, I worry that DUSA’s reputation is so low among students that students wouldn't care. I want to restore DUSA’s reputation".
"And then thirdly, I suppose, a combination of accountability. I mean, Scottish Funding Council are coming into do their investigation, which should be completed by June or July. One effect of this should be to enhance the ability of DUSA, particularly its elected representatives (the president, the independent member of court and the rector and the records assessor) to actually be able to hold the university to account".
"This crisis is certainly not the fault of students or staff. I think that if our if the student voice was stronger, and we will listen to more, we were able to make sure the university was not engaging in potentially criminal behaviour (That's it's definitely not my words. That's the words of Trisha Bey, the chair of court). The best I think we can do is absolutely collaborate, but I think we have to recognize that they've screwed up. Senior Management has screwed up, and actually, it's time to listen to students and staff at the university".
TJJ: What does each member of the exec do and what are their key objectives?
Custance: "There's me, obviously, as President, there's the ice president representation, who oversees all the representative structures, including the Student Representative Council. They're going to have the work cut out, because, again no one has a clue that the SRC exists".
"The VPR will have their work cut out if they're going to take that role. DUSA, the exec as a whole need to create a space for people to want to hope".
I think for a lot of students, who don't have any experience of things getting better in the world, creating the desire and the belief that that hope is a sensible and same thing to have, and then acting on that hope as well. Yeah, I think a lot of change could happen, but at this university, but it requires a VPR to, among others to really focus on that.
They would be working collaboratively with the VPA (Vice President of academia), currently the outgoing excellent Dani Mcfawns, who's now going to be the society's permanent staff officer as a society's officer, which is very helpful and needed right now.
"The VPA will have their work cut out for them especially in a year where we might see massive, massive cuts to modules, to courses, to jobs. So, I think a lot of that will be, it's going to be a lot of firefighting, a lot of defensive action. And again, I think those two roles especially are key to inspire students to believe that we can actually stand up for their interests.
TJJ: To clarify, there is President, VPA, VPF, VPSA- what are the other roles? There is a great consensus that many students are unaware of each individual role and what they have achieved in the past.
Custance: ‘just before I came here, I was listening to an interview with Ian Kennedy, who was president, I think 12/ 13 years ago and it's always been a colossal problem. Certainly, since I’ve been here, but it's the way that DUSA communicates.
"It has been dire and is dire right now. Apparently, its ability to communicate is so bad that it can't organize St Paddy's Day which is utterly astonishing".
"I think that's a really good example of how even things that DUSA was famously good for, like club nights have diminished. It can no longer communicate and inspire people to even listen to what they're saying. It's a fair comment to make about, you know, the outgoing exec that it's hard to know what they’re doing".
TJJ: I agree, it is hard to know what their doing without actively engaging and checking their social media accounts.
Custance: ‘I want to be fair, because its is hard to get past that lack of engagement. I think partly it's, well, are you actually doing things that are worthwhile listening to?"
"Communication is a massive, massive issue, but I agree, for example the VPC ( Vice President of Community), is a very nebulous role. It's very much up to the individual as to what they what they do with it.
TJJ: How are you going to improve DUSA’s reputation with students?
Custance:
"Firstly is to be very far more public and vocal in defending student interests, when they are being attacked by the senior management of the university".
"I'm very passionate about this. This university is our university- the 17,000 students and 4000 staff. This university is not the property of the UEG and they may think it's private organization that they can mismanage how they like. As far as I'm concerned, this is a public institution that is publicly funded".
"We should be respected, not just treated like cash cows".
TJJ: ‘There has been criticism from students about the methods used in the election to get students to vote for candidates. Students feel they are being harassed on campus to vote for certain candidates. As well as the, what I would call unprofessional, DUSA election posters. Do you think these are effective measures to take to ensure students vote?
Custance: ‘I totally agree that people should not be harassed in the election period. I mean if it works, it works, yeah. But I suppose by that thing you could say it hasn't worked as turnout was down quite dramatically, compared to just two years ago.
"I'll say two things about it, I think again the DUSA staff tried the best, and others tried their best to boost turnout. I'm not going to, not going to criticize the efforts".
I would say that the problem with engagement is that it doesn't seem worth it or important because nothing changes".
"Because people are elected onto the exec, and then they become either anonymous or sucked into the bureaucracy of the university and DUSA".
"I think when people think there's a meaningful choice they'll get involved. I mean, the highest turnout we've ever had in a British election was the Scottish Independence referendum because it was very meaningful".
TJJ: You've talked a big talk about holding University management to account, how can students trust that you will follow through?
Custance: "First is to actually communicate what you're doing. Particularly when it's an issue like strikes, the financial crisis, or the (potentially criminal) mismanagement. We can be alot more public about that. There are two factors which inhibit DUSA from doing so; DUSA is reliant on the University and must maintain a good relationship".
"Two and a half years ago, I got a motion through the student council to set a policy on supporting strikes, which passed overwhelmingly. The then exec refused to implement it. This year, the exec also put out a statement on the strikes, and it's very equivocal. It's not coming out in support of them, the advice that they have received from figures, either within the university or DUSA says we have to be politically neutral. I think that has been overdone".
TJJ: How are you going to involve students in the fight against the 632 redundancies and course cutting?
Custance: "One of the problems is that we don’t know the time scale for what’s happening here, as some of it may be happening over the summer. I think firstly, DUSA needs to be in the room with the unions, something which DUSA has been woeful at during the time I’ve been here. The trade unions are a fantastic ally- we do have slightly divergent interests; I am a proud trade unionist and I want to form a closer collaboration.
TJJ: How will you use your background in community education to support the student body in your role as President of DUSA?
Custance: "Good question. Personally I am very worried about the future of my course (community education). The students are overwhelmingly female, Scottish working classes. I am the closest we have to an international student because I come from England. From a financial, bean counting, point of view it is a terrible course for the university, and I am worried that they will go after it".
"People who go into community education do it for the love and the values- they don’t graduate and gain a six-figure salary to then come back and donate to the university. I am very worried about my course and it’s future, but of course I am going to pay close attention to all courses. I am here to defend them all".
"I have a background in political activism and community education- they are related but different. As a political activist you can believe whatever it is you want to believe, and you can try to make that happen. Which means you exist in your own sort of bubble. As a community education student/ professional I learned that its not what I think that’s important, its about what other people think".
"If you take the word education, etymologically speaking, it literally means to draw from within. I think my role is as an educator, and I think any student or political role is also an educator. My role is to provide a space where people can actively engage with issues that concern them- and I think that is something that is absolutely applicable to a student body. When has DUSA provided this space for people to engage with issues, for example, how the university is governed?"
"I am in no doubt that I will not succeed in the way that I would like to, because I may be too ambitious, but I will give it a go. I think even if I’ve inspired at least one person who can benefit from seeing a campus that has more people inspired to be active- that would be a good thing".
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